[KyOSS Discuss] Suggested discussion topic: IPv4 address exhaustion and IPv6 adoption

Bill Engebretson phil0laconian at gmail.com
Mon Sep 17 16:23:49 EDT 2012


Hi.  Count me in as extremely interested in this topic.  Bill

On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Alex Hagerman <alex.hagerman at gmail.com>wrote:

> A quick question thinking about this. How are programs being prepared or
> are they prepared? I can look into this later, but it just popped into my
> mind that I have MySQL databases with users setup with permissions based on
> Host. Right now all of these are IPv4. If I was to enter an IPv6 address
> would MySQL be prepared to handle that comparison?
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Britt Dodd <brittman914 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe *this* addresses just what your talking about:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6in4
>>
>> It's IPv4 traffic encapsulated in IPv6 traffic --- There are several
>> 6-in-4 providers that allow "legacy" IPv4 traffic onto IPv6 networks.
>> I'm not sure that all of the ISPs are going to follow TW's (or the
>> other MPAA-agreeing partied ISPs) lead. At least I hope not.
>>
>> The main beef I have with the Internet (and lots of things for that
>> matter) is that "consumers" don't fully understand what they use and
>> how it works --- sure a tablet reaches YouTube, but nobody seems to
>> care about how/why it works and simply blindly accept major changes to
>> the underlying infrastructure. That's why ISP's dont invest, the
>> consumer doesn't care.
>>
>> I have a re-occuring $10 surcharge on my Sprint bill for the same
>> reason --- It's labelled as a "Enhanced Phone Fee" --- because I
>> happened to buy a phone with a 8MP camera, when it initially was a 4G
>> fee for WiMax that never made it to Louisville. I have to pay the fee
>> because consumers dont get (and complain) about why having a
>> 8MP-camera smartphone means you have to pay $10 a month.
>>
>> IPv6 wont happen until it has to, and ISP's dont care about NAT'ing to
>> oblivion because the consumer doesn't care --- and they don't care
>> because the magic box just works.
>>
>> Speaking of TW, when is the Insight/TW switchover happening?
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Barton Chittenden <bartonski at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I've been reading and thinking about it, and I think that the problem is
>> > actually a little more pernicious. We all like to think about the
>> internet
>> > as a nice point to point network where everyone is connected to everyone
>> > else. However, there are some significant interest groups who would
>> like the
>> > internet to be a broadcast network: A limited number of content
>> providers,
>> > and all the rest of the world as consumers. If all of the world's end
>> users
>> > are hidden behind some ISP's NAT, that is much more what the world looks
>> > like... so you get no movement at the national or even international
>> level
>> > (because the lobbyists for Time Warner, Disney, MPAA and all of the
>> Telecoms
>> > are fighting against it), and you get no movement at the ISP level,
>> because
>> > of the investments required.
>> >
>> > On the up side, I believe that Comcast is using IPv6 on their network
>> > infrastructure. They provide IPv4 addresses to the customer, but a lot
>> of
>> > the other stuff is IPv6 (I don't really know what the 'other stuff'
>> consists
>> > of -- set top boxes? edge routers?).
>> >
>> > What I can't figure out is why it isn't possible to have the IPv4
>> address
>> > space be a subnet of IPv6... mark off a [tiny] section of the IPv6
>> address
>> > space and say 'Ok, the lower 32 bits of this address space get sent off
>> to
>> > the old internet'.
>> >
>> > Maybe that's the way it already works. I don't know.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Alex Hagerman <
>> alex.hagerman at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure on the first point, but at least on the second while in a
>> >> perfect world that sounds great, no ISP is going to let that money
>> grab get
>> >> away with IPV6.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:45 AM, alan blount <alan at zeroasterisk.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> But it seems to me (non-networking guy that I am) that you can have
>> both
>> >>> and route either way, right?
>> >>>
>> >>> So providers assign a IPv6 to each of their customers, in addition to
>> the
>> >>> IPv4, and the world remains happy.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Jeff Squyres <jeff at squyres.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Note that it's a very different thing to say "there isn't enough
>> demand"
>> >>>> vs. "we're not going to do it."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Barton is right in that it's a chicken-n-egg problem: providers like
>> >>>> IgLou won't spent the time/effort to go IPv6 because not enough
>> people (know
>> >>>> that they) want it.  And not enough people want it because their
>> providers
>> >>>> are not forcing them to it.  But if providers start forcing people
>> to IPv6
>> >>>> -- particularly if you're among the first providers to do so --
>> you'll lose
>> >>>> customers.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Britt Dodd <brittman914 at gmail.com>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Someone needs to inform IgLou of this. They evidentially haven't
>> read
>> >>>>> the news and don't believe its a problem. I guess they bought a huge
>> >>>>> block of IPv4 addresses back in the day....I had inquired about IPv6
>> >>>>> addresses and say said they haven't looked into IPv6 because there
>> >>>>> wasn't enough demand for them.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Alan Blount <
>> zeroasterisk at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> > Sounds like a very interesting topic. Alas I am not going to be
>> >>>>> > helpful with
>> >>>>> > the answers to these questions, but I'll be very interested to
>> hear
>> >>>>> > them.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Barton Chittenden <
>> bartonski at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> > wrote:
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > On September 14, RIPE NCC, the European regional internet
>> registry,
>> >>>>> > started
>> >>>>> > allocating IP addresses from its last /8 address block. This is
>> the
>> >>>>> > beginning of the end of the allocation of the IPv4 address space
>> >>>>> > (i.e.
>> >>>>> > addresses of the form xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) as we know it. Allocation
>> of
>> >>>>> > IPv4
>> >>>>> > addresses in Europe is now strictly rationed.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > ARIN (American Registry of Internet Numbers) will be down to its
>> last
>> >>>>> > /8 by
>> >>>>> > this time next year.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > The long term solution to this problem is to start using IPv6
>> >>>>> > addresses,
>> >>>>> > which are essentially unlimited (The address space is so large
>> that
>> >>>>> > you
>> >>>>> > could assign about a thousand times the current internet address
>> >>>>> > space to
>> >>>>> > each cell of every one of the 7 billion people on earth).
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > The problem of switching to IPv6 is a chicken-and-egg problem:
>> >>>>> > internet
>> >>>>> > users won't switch to IPv6 addresses because there are very few
>> sites
>> >>>>> > that
>> >>>>> > they can connect to which use IPv6, and no content providers use
>> IPv6
>> >>>>> > addresses because no-one visits via IPv6. Most ISPs don't provide
>> >>>>> > IPv6
>> >>>>> > addresses (or if they do, no-one realizes that they do).
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > There are some short-term solutions, but they destroy the
>> >>>>> > point-to-point
>> >>>>> > nature of the internet which can cause problems.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > I have a decent handle on what's happening and why, but I have
>> zero
>> >>>>> > experience with setting up a network using IPv6... in many ways,
>> it
>> >>>>> > should
>> >>>>> > be transparent (as IPv4 is... you connect your computer to a
>> router
>> >>>>> > via cat5
>> >>>>> > cable or wireless, and you're connected). Obviously, it's not
>> quite
>> >>>>> > that
>> >>>>> > easy, if it was, we would all be using IPv6 and we wouldn't be
>> >>>>> > worrying
>> >>>>> > about running out of address space.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > I was wondering if some of the local network gurus could give a
>> talk
>> >>>>> > about
>> >>>>> > this:
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > A primer on IP addresses in general
>> >>>>> > What physical steps do I need to take to set up an IPv6 network?
>> >>>>> > (e.g. a
>> >>>>> > LAN).
>> >>>>> > Are there any issues involved with running both IPv4 and IPv6 on
>> the
>> >>>>> > same
>> >>>>> > network?
>> >>>>> > How do I connect to the internet via IPv6?
>> >>>>> > Will my ISP provide IPv6 addresses?
>> >>>>> > Are there security issues involved with using IPv6, and if so,
>> how do
>> >>>>> > I fix
>> >>>>> > these?
>> >>>>> > ...
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Any takers? I would be willing to do the presentation, but, as I
>> >>>>> > said, I
>> >>>>> > have zero practical experience, and I think that the topic
>> deserves
>> >>>>> > more
>> >>>>> > than hand-waving.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > --Barton
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>> > KyOSS-Discuss at kyoss.org
>> >>>>> > http://kyoss.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kyoss-discuss
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>> >
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> {+} Jeff Squyres
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
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