[KyOSS Discuss] Wednesday's meeting: Test-Driven Devlopment (TDD) and other wonders

Charles Griffin cegrif01 at gmail.com
Tue Oct 8 17:17:32 EDT 2013

I'm debating on whether to show the group testing in Laravel or just plain
ol' php from scratch.  Alan, if you're going to whip out CakePHP, I'd be
super excited to show testing in Laravel so that everyone (including
myself) can see the differences.  I'm currently working on a financial
application in Laravel that is full of unit tests so I naturally would
rather show Laravel, but the testing process is exactly the same whether
you start with or without a framework.

I can also hit a little on the subject of mocking and dependency injection,
but I will probably just talk about the concepts and what they mean and
save those topics for a series of testing discussions.

The one thing I would like for the group to get out of the TDD discussions
is that it really doesn't matter if it's php, java, or even something a
little less common like lua.  Testing is testing.  If you're a developer in
a different language, don't get discouraged by the fact that there may not
be a good testing framework (like phpunit).  It's actually quite easy to
spin your own basic methods for testing.


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 4:55 PM, John Hicks <johnhicks at gulfbridge.net> wrote:

>  Sounds like there's interest and willing presenters, so let's talk about
> TDD!
> That's tomorrow night (Wednesday, October 9) at 6:30 at LVL1, 814 East
> Broadway, rear entrance, park in the lot to the rear of the rear entrance.
> To put yourself in the mood, your homework is to do at least the first
> problem at "You can't program Javascript under pressure<http://toys.usvsth3m.com/javascript-under-pressure/>"
> and to notice how it verifies the correctness, or lack thereof, of your
> answer, running through a series of tests.
> (I know both Charles and Alan are PHP developers like I am. I'm curious to
> see how TDD is done in PHP, where there are often side effects to functions
> beyond what's returned from the function call.)
> We'll have time to talk about other things too. Any other subjects you all
> want to talk about?
> John
> On 10/08/2013 12:42 PM, Alex Bezuska wrote:
>  I would love to learn more about TDD, I am a newb in this area.  looking
> forward to KYOSS tomorrow
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Chris Rockwell <chris at chrisrockwell.com>wrote:
>> I'm definitely interested in a series on this, whether it's at JSLou or
>> KYOSS.  Can't make KYOSS this month though, so just cover the basics :)
>>  On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 11:58 AM, alan blount <alan at zeroasterisk.com>wrote:
>>>  If anyone's interested in a series on TDD, I can demo how we're
>>> testing at work with CakePHP, TravisCI, smoketest, etc...
>>>  Also, I have not yet cracked into unit testing / TDD with MeteorJS,
>>> but a lot of work has been done in those areas and I've been meaning to get
>>> into it.  Happy to dig into an investigation sometime (JSLou?).
>>>  {I've been putting it off waiting on "official" specifications from
>>> Meteor, but they do have "semi-official" tinytest for packages, which we
>>> could implement on a simple package I've released which needs some tests}
>>>  *Background*
>>>  if anyone does NOT know what we are talking about with "unit tests" or
>>> "test driven development" - it's basically an approach for writing code to
>>> test your code... More work up front, and usually 2x-3x the total lines of
>>> code; but you end up with something that is a LOT more reliable, readable,
>>> referenceable, and provable.
>>>  If you're just popping out a Wordpress install, don't worry about
>>> this.
>>>  If you're building anything you care about, you should worry about
>>> this... even if it's not a big project you want to maintain forever, the
>>> habits of TDD *will* make you a better programmer and your code will
>>> forever be easier to upgrade/update/refactor/collaborate on.
>>>  Thanks,
>>> -alan
>>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Chris Simmons <chrissimmons2 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>  Wow John! Thanks for the detailed response!  We should be there
>>>> tomorrow barring any unexpected road blocks on my part.
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>  Chris Simmons
>>>> On Oct 8, 2013, at 12:32 AM, John Hicks <johnhicks at kyoss.org> wrote:
>>>>   On 10/07/2013 10:46 AM, Christopher Simmons wrote:
>>>> I haven't been to one of these meetings in over a year.  I was thinking
>>>> about coming to this month's meeting and bringing someone who is just
>>>> starting to get interested in technology.  What do we have on the agenda
>>>> for this month?  Are there any entry level topics being covered this week?
>>>>  Anything that a new linux / Open Source user might be able to follow and
>>>> not get too overwhelmed? Thanks in advance!  I'm looking forward to
>>>> Wednesday.
>>>> Chris,
>>>> We've tossed a couple of ideas around, but so far nothing solid is on
>>>> the agenda.
>>>> Ideas discussed:
>>>>    - Joel Tosi (in Chicago) mentioned "presentations / workshops
>>>>    around puppet, vagrant, etc.,"  and "the continuous delivery space or
>>>>    devops" He could come down in the future to lead something, but not this
>>>>    week.
>>>>    - Chris Rockwell and Paul Yost (from IvyTech) have been in
>>>>    communication about creating a LiveCD that supports USB wireless. Chris
>>>>    invited Paul to the meeting to discuss it further.
>>>> Another idea:
>>>>    - Alex Bezuska, who is leading the JSLOU Javascript group, has
>>>>    offered to take on a remake of the front end of the kyoss.orgwebsite as a JSLOU project.
>>>>    - Craig Garner has pointed out a number of deficiencies in the back
>>>>    end of the site.
>>>>    - John Hicks, the perpetrator of the site, has been completely
>>>>    anal-retentive about keeping it programmed-from-scratch (despite the fact
>>>>    that some of the code is approaching 10 years old and he hasn't done
>>>>    diddly-squat lately to improve it).
>>>>    - Therefore, we might reasonably ask John to explain the
>>>>    architecture of the site a bit so that we might help him along with
>>>>    back-end improvements.
>>>> Other topical topics:
>>>>    - NSA/privacy/transparency developments
>>>>    - Cryptography - anybody else signed up for the Stanford course?
>>>>    (It's week five. I really need to get started on it!!!)
>>>>     - The apparent movement to Linux for gaming
>>>>    - New Linux kernel
>>>>    - hardware developments... seem to be multiple takes out recently
>>>>    for a PC+Arduino board
>>>>     - ... what did I miss?
>>>> Also,
>>>>    - We could have a live "You can't program Javascript under pressure<http://toys.usvsth3m.com/javascript-under-pressure/>"
>>>>    competition. Or at least a demonstration of how the site implements
>>>>    test-driven development (TDD).
>>>>    - TDD is a subject that's been suggested, but it's probably too
>>>>    late to expect anyone to prepare something by Wednesday.
>>>>    - I struggled with Mailman and Postfix this past week getting the
>>>>    JSLOU mailing list going. I could show what I was struggling with, and some
>>>>    of you gurus could elucidate on what was probably happening under my
>>>>    clueless nose.
>>>>    - We always have an interest in git, vim, etc.
>>>>     - Barton could give us some more command line gems. Or we could
>>>>    follow his suggestion for each of us to bring our favorite
>>>>    little-used-but-invaluable-when-needed commands to share.
>>>>     - We are overdue talking about networks and network tools.
>>>>    - We could compare our various work environments for coding.
>>>>    IDEs/editors/screen setups, etc.  Our work habits, ways to get "in the
>>>>    zone." ...
>>>> Any other ideas, folks?
>>>> John
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