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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Sounds great! Thanks, Charles and Alan!<br>
      <br>
      See everyone tomorrow night!<br>
      <br>
      (That's Wednesday, Oct 9, at LVL1, 814 E. Broadway, rear
      entrance.)<br>
      <br>
      Social hour and introductions at 6:30. Program at 7:00.<br>
      <br>
      -John<br>
      <br>
      On 10/08/2013 08:40 PM, alan blount wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CALna7VO4F+gKBama=YGv07d3b4M_mPUXpXBrC_UeOGU0R6Bvug@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Yup - assuming I can
          make it (I'll try really hard to do so), I'll be demoing:</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
          <ul>
            <li>CakePHP testing framework (wrapper/framework for phpunit
              as of cake2.0)<br>
            </li>
            <li>Introduction to unit testing in CakePHP<br>
            </li>
            <li>Quick Introduction to TDD (writing your tests first)<br>
            </li>
            <li>Overview of TravisCI and demonstration and review of our
              config file<br>
            </li>
            <li>Code Coverage</li>
            <li>Plugin testing</li>
            <li>Test grouping</li>
          </ul>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Future topics:</div>
        <div class="gmail_default">
          <ul>
            <li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">General: Object Mocking</font></li>
            <li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Cake specific: Model /
                Controller / View / Helper mocking</font></li>
            <li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Smoketest / Use Case
                Testing (in a headless browser, with JS, with
                screenshots)</font></li>
            <li><font face="verdana, sans-serif">MeteorJS Unit Testing</font></li>
          </ul>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
        <div>
          <div dir="ltr">Thanks,
            <div>-alan</div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Charles
          Griffin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'cegrif01@gmail.com');"
              target="_blank">cegrif01@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>I'm debating on whether to show the group testing in
                Laravel or just plain ol' php from scratch.  Alan, if
                you're going to whip out CakePHP, I'd be super excited
                to show testing in Laravel so that everyone (including
                myself) can see the differences.  I'm currently working
                on a financial application in Laravel that is full of
                unit tests so I naturally would rather show Laravel, but
                the testing process is exactly the same whether you
                start with or without a framework.  <br>
                <br>
                I can also hit a little on the subject of mocking and
                dependency injection, but I will probably just talk
                about the concepts and what they mean and save those
                topics for a series of testing discussions. <br>
                <br>
                The one thing I would like for the group to get out of
                the TDD discussions is that it really doesn't matter if
                it's php, java, or even something a little less common
                like lua.  Testing is testing.  If you're a developer in
                a different language, don't get discouraged by the fact
                that there may not be a good testing framework (like
                phpunit).  It's actually quite easy to spin your own
                basic methods for testing.<br>
                <br>
              </div>
              Charles<br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div>
                  <div>On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 4:55 PM, John Hicks <span
                      dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                        'johnhicks@gulfbridge.net');" target="_blank">johnhicks@gulfbridge.net</a>></span>
                    wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                        <div>Sounds like there's interest and willing
                          presenters, so let's talk about TDD! <br>
                          <br>
                          That's tomorrow night (Wednesday, October 9)
                          at 6:30 at LVL1, 814 East Broadway, rear
                          entrance, park in the lot to the rear of the
                          rear entrance.<br>
                          <br>
                          To put yourself in the mood, your homework is
                          to do at least the first problem at "<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://toys.usvsth3m.com/javascript-under-pressure/"
                            target="_blank">You can't program Javascript
                            under pressure</a>" and to notice how it
                          verifies the correctness, or lack thereof, of
                          your answer, running through a series of
                          tests.<br>
                          <br>
                          (I know both Charles and Alan are PHP
                          developers like I am. I'm curious to see how
                          TDD is done in PHP, where there are often side
                          effects to functions beyond what's returned
                          from the function call.)<br>
                          <br>
                          We'll have time to talk about other things
                          too. Any other subjects you all want to talk
                          about?<br>
                          <br>
                          John<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          On 10/08/2013 12:42 PM, Alex Bezuska wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div class="gmail_default"
                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#444444">I
                              would love to learn more about TDD, I am a
                              newb in this area.  looking forward to
                              KYOSS tomorrow</div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_extra"> <br>
                            <br>
                            <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 8, 2013
                              at 12:12 PM, Chris Rockwell <span
                                dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
                                  'chris@chrisrockwell.com');"
                                  target="_blank">chris@chrisrockwell.com</a>></span>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                                #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                <div dir="ltr">I'm definitely interested
                                  in a series on this, whether it's at
                                  JSLou or KYOSS.  Can't make KYOSS this
                                  month though, so just cover the basics
                                  :)</div>
                                <div class="gmail_extra">
                                  <div>
                                    <div> <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div class="gmail_quote"> On Tue,
                                        Oct 8, 2013 at 11:58 AM, alan
                                        blount <span dir="ltr"><<a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="javascript:_e({},
                                            'cvml',
                                            'alan@zeroasterisk.com');"
                                            target="_blank">alan@zeroasterisk.com</a>></span>
                                        wrote:<br>
                                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                          style="margin:0 0 0
                                          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If


                                              anyone's interested in a
                                              series on TDD, I can demo
                                              how we're testing at work
                                              with CakePHP, TravisCI,
                                              smoketest, etc... </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
                                              <br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Also,

                                              I have not yet cracked
                                              into unit testing / TDD
                                              with MeteorJS, but a lot
                                              of work has been done in
                                              those areas and I've been
                                              meaning to get into it.
                                               Happy to dig into an
                                              investigation sometime
                                              (JSLou?).  </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">{I've


                                              been putting it off
                                              waiting on "official"
                                              specifications from
                                              Meteor, but they do have
                                              "semi-official" tinytest
                                              for packages, which we
                                              could implement on a
                                              simple package I've
                                              released which needs some
                                              tests}</div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">*Background*</div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">if


                                              anyone does NOT know what
                                              we are talking about with
                                              "unit tests" or "test
                                              driven development" - it's
                                              basically an approach for
                                              writing code to test your
                                              code... More work up
                                              front, and usually 2x-3x
                                              the total lines of code;
                                              but you end up with
                                              something that is a LOT
                                              more reliable, readable,
                                              referenceable, and
                                              provable.  </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If


                                              you're just popping out a
                                              Wordpress install, don't
                                              worry about this.  </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">If


                                              you're building anything
                                              you care about, you should
                                              worry about this... even
                                              if it's not a big project
                                              you want to maintain
                                              forever, the habits of TDD
                                              *will* make you a better
                                              programmer and your code
                                              will forever be easier to
                                              upgrade/update/refactor/collaborate


                                              on.</div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="gmail_default"
                                              style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="gmail_extra"><br
                                              clear="all">
                                            <div>
                                              <div dir="ltr">Thanks,
                                                <div>-alan</div>
                                              </div>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <div> <br>
                                                <br>
                                                <div class="gmail_quote">On

                                                  Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at
                                                  11:03 AM, Chris
                                                  Simmons <span
                                                    dir="ltr"><<a
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                      href="javascript:_e({},

                                                      'cvml',
                                                      'chrissimmons2@gmail.com');"
                                                      target="_blank">chrissimmons2@gmail.com</a>></span>
                                                  wrote:<br>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    class="gmail_quote"
                                                    style="margin:0 0 0
                                                    .8ex;border-left:1px
                                                    #ccc
                                                    solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                                    <div dir="auto">
                                                      <div>Wow John!
                                                        Thanks for the
                                                        detailed
                                                        response!  We
                                                        should be there
                                                        tomorrow barring
                                                        any unexpected
                                                        road blocks on
                                                        my part.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Thank you,
                                                        <div><br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <div>Chris
                                                          Simmons</div>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          On Oct 8,
                                                          2013, at 12:32
                                                          AM, John Hicks
                                                          <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="javascript:_e({},

                                                          'cvml',
                                                          'johnhicks@kyoss.org');"
target="_blank">johnhicks@kyoss.org</a>> wrote:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>On
                                                          10/07/2013
                                                          10:46 AM,
                                                          Christopher
                                                          Simmons wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">I
                                                          haven't been
                                                          to one of
                                                          these meetings
                                                          in over a
                                                          year.  I was
                                                          thinking about
                                                          coming to this
                                                          month's
                                                          meeting and
                                                          bringing
                                                          someone who is
                                                          just starting
                                                          to get
                                                          interested in
                                                          technology.
                                                           What do we
                                                          have on the
                                                          agenda for
                                                          this month?
                                                           Are there any
                                                          entry level
                                                          topics being
                                                          covered this
                                                          week?
                                                           Anything that
                                                          a new linux /
                                                          Open Source
                                                          user might be
                                                          able to follow
                                                          and not get
                                                          too
                                                          overwhelmed?
                                                          Thanks in
                                                          advance!  I'm
                                                          looking
                                                          forward to
                                                          Wednesday. <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Chris, <br>
                                                          We've tossed a
                                                          couple of
                                                          ideas around,
                                                          but so far
                                                          nothing solid
                                                          is on the
                                                          agenda.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Ideas
                                                          discussed:<br>
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li>Joel Tosi
                                                          (in Chicago)
                                                          mentioned
                                                          "presentations
                                                          / workshops
                                                          around puppet,
                                                          vagrant,
                                                          etc.,"  and
                                                          "the
                                                          continuous
                                                          delivery space
                                                          or devops" He
                                                          could come
                                                          down in the
                                                          future to lead
                                                          something, but
                                                          not this week.</li>
                                                          <li>Chris
                                                          Rockwell and
                                                          Paul Yost
                                                          (from IvyTech)
                                                          have been in
                                                          communication
                                                          about creating
                                                          a LiveCD that
                                                          supports USB
                                                          wireless.
                                                          Chris invited
                                                          Paul to the
                                                          meeting to
                                                          discuss it
                                                          further.</li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          Another idea:<br>
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li>Alex
                                                          Bezuska, who
                                                          is leading the
                                                          JSLOU
                                                          Javascript
                                                          group, has
                                                          offered to
                                                          take on a
                                                          remake of the
                                                          front end of
                                                          the <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://kyoss.org" target="_blank">kyoss.org</a> website as a JSLOU
                                                          project.</li>
                                                          <li>Craig
                                                          Garner has
                                                          pointed out a
                                                          number of
                                                          deficiencies
                                                          in the back
                                                          end of the
                                                          site.</li>
                                                          <li>John
                                                          Hicks, the
                                                          perpetrator of
                                                          the site, has
                                                          been
                                                          completely
                                                          anal-retentive
                                                          about keeping
                                                          it
                                                          programmed-from-scratch
                                                          (despite the
                                                          fact that some
                                                          of the code is
                                                          approaching 10
                                                          years old and
                                                          he hasn't done
                                                          diddly-squat
                                                          lately to
                                                          improve it).</li>
                                                          <li>Therefore,
                                                          we might
                                                          reasonably ask
                                                          John to
                                                          explain the
                                                          architecture
                                                          of the site a
                                                          bit so that we
                                                          might help him
                                                          along with
                                                          back-end
                                                          improvements.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          <p>Other
                                                          topical
                                                          topics:<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li>NSA/privacy/transparency


                                                          developments</li>
                                                          <li>Cryptography

                                                          - anybody else
                                                          signed up for
                                                          the Stanford
                                                          course?  (It's
                                                          week five. I
                                                          really need to
                                                          get started on
                                                          it!!!)<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>The
                                                          apparent
                                                          movement to
                                                          Linux for
                                                          gaming</li>
                                                          <li>New Linux
                                                          kernel</li>
                                                          <li>hardware
                                                          developments...
                                                          seem to be
                                                          multiple takes
                                                          out recently
                                                          for a
                                                          PC+Arduino
                                                          board<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>... what
                                                          did I miss?</li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          <p>Also,<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <ul>
                                                          <li>We could
                                                          have a live "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="http://toys.usvsth3m.com/javascript-under-pressure/"
target="_blank">You can't program Javascript under pressure</a>"
                                                          competition.
                                                          Or at least a
                                                          demonstration
                                                          of how the
                                                          site
                                                          implements
                                                          test-driven
                                                          development
                                                          (TDD).</li>
                                                          <li>TDD is a
                                                          subject that's
                                                          been
                                                          suggested, but
                                                          it's probably
                                                          too late to
                                                          expect anyone
                                                          to prepare
                                                          something by
                                                          Wednesday.</li>
                                                          <li>I
                                                          struggled with
                                                          Mailman and
                                                          Postfix this
                                                          past week
                                                          getting the
                                                          JSLOU mailing
                                                          list going. I
                                                          could show
                                                          what I was
                                                          struggling
                                                          with, and some
                                                          of you gurus
                                                          could
                                                          elucidate on
                                                          what was
                                                          probably
                                                          happening
                                                          under my
                                                          clueless nose.</li>
                                                          <li>We always
                                                          have an
                                                          interest in
                                                          git, vim, etc.
                                                          <br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>Barton
                                                          could give us
                                                          some more
                                                          command line
                                                          gems. Or we
                                                          could follow
                                                          his suggestion
                                                          for each of us
                                                          to bring our
                                                          favorite
                                                          little-used-but-invaluable-when-needed
                                                          commands to
                                                          share.<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          <li>We are
                                                          overdue
                                                          talking about
                                                          networks and
                                                          network
                                                          tools. </li>
                                                          <li>We could
                                                          compare our
                                                          various work
                                                          environments
                                                          for coding.
                                                          IDEs/editors/screen
                                                          setups, etc. 
                                                          Our work
                                                          habits, ways
                                                          to get "in the
                                                          zone." ...<br>
                                                          </li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          <p>Any other
                                                          ideas, folks?<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          <p>John<br>
                                                          </p>
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